Using Maximize Conversion Value for Performance Max Bidding Strategies Guide Part 6

Sun, Aug 21, 2022

We’re showing you how our leaders at Solutions 8 exchange ideas in the last part of our Bidding Strategies Guide.

Here’s the Q&A portion of our internal Bid Strategies training where John and Kasim answer why we use Maximize conversion value bidding for Performance Max even if it limits scale, the right campaigns for target CPM and max CPV, the hack for stealing your competition’s traffic with GTINs, and many more!

0:00 Intro | Using Maximize Conversion Value for Performance Max: Bidding Strategies Guide Part 6

0:51 Why do we use Maximize conversion value for Performance Max even if it limits scale?

1:31 If Manual CPC goes away, what should we replace it with?

2:16 Is creating a campaign without a goal guidance change or limit the machine learning capabilities?

2:44 If conversion-based bidding strategies work better, when would you use target CPM or max CPV?

4:29 Does GADS consider on-page behavior from GA?

5:26 Other factors to consider when choosing the bidding strategy (apart from the nature of bid strategies)

8:23 Is tCPA meant for lead gen and tROAS for eCommerce?

10:49 Maximize conversions for Performance Max for lead gen

13:14 With the differences between tCPA and tROAS, would it be effective to create two campaigns with the same settings, one with tCPA and one with zero ads?

14:17 You have to take EVERYTHING into consideration when choosing a bidding strategy

20:09 Maximize conversion bidding is aggressive and exhausts the budget

🎯 Guide to Google Ads Bidding Strategies:

Guide to Google Ads Bidding Strategies Part 1: https://youtu.be/QSsNj1XHJS4

Maximize Conversions: https://youtu.be/ahardi5itKA

Maximize Conversion Value: https://youtu.be/_sVoyy3xaOk

Target Impression Share vs. Manual CPC: https://youtu.be/cYjr2bnvVz4

Maximum CPV vs Target CPM + Bid Strategy to Avoid for PMax: https://youtu.be/46FaPeUTZwU

PS: This Bidding Strategies Guide series is from an internal Solutions 8 training. And we’re sharing everything with you, our dear subscribers, to show our gratitude for the overwhelming support you’ve given us. We value you and your growth with Google Ads. 🖤💚🤍

This ULTIMATE GUIDE gives you EVERYTHING you need to know about how to set up, build and optimize your Google Ads Performance Max campaigns: https://sol8.com/performance-max/

🤖🦾🦿 The Ultimate Guide to Google Ads Performance Max for 2022 (Part 1-3): https://youtu.be/oXoFn7dUvL8

Want to learn more about Google Ads Performance Max? Here’s the link to all our PMax guide videos:

https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLp…

🧐 Do You Have What It Takes to Be John Moran’s Right Hand? If So, We Need Your HELP! https://youtu.be/4Kcf-IHVbAw

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Transcript
John:

If you have a smaller budget and that product does well on

John:

Amazon, cuz Amazon has to use G TNS.

John:

You can actually steal a whole bunch of like just kind of leftover traffic.

John:

That's ready to go.

John:

When you have a targeted cost per acquisition for an eCommerce

John:

campaign, it's sometimes better than a maximize conversion value.

John:

With, or even without a T row as campaign, if you switch that

John:

over to manual, CPBC what you've done though, is you've removed.

John:

Google's learning about a person, pitching agencies make sense and freelancers

John:

even, but the idea that a business owner would actually run their own Google ads

John:

at this point truly is akin to your own brain surgery or your own dentistry.

John:

Maybe if we want to be a little less arrogant,

John:

John, I'm gonna start asking the questions that I have.

John:

You ready?

John:

Yep.

John:

Why do we use maximize conversion value for performance max?

John:

If it limits scale.

John:

Because the scale is usually much higher than what our clients can afford.,

John:

if you're using maximize conversion value, you're saying, okay, go find,

John:

meet people on search, shopping, YouTube, GSP discovery, display, top,

John:

middle, and bottom of the funnel.

John:

And only spend on the people that we think are gonna at least

John:

have 150% row as or higher.

John:

And if you don't max out your spend, you will find those people.

John:

Once you maxed out your spend, then you have to do cost.

John:

What will we use to replace manual CPC?

John:

If, and when it goes away, I'd actually use manual maximize conversions.

John:

Most often because manual CPC is best for placement.

John:

And the controlling of the cost would be, if I set a specific T CPA

John:

or maximize conversions, it's going to limit the amount of money you

John:

can spend, which is gonna also spend per click, which is meaning that

John:

your placement is going to go down.

John:

So maximize convergence is like, is essentially default to like,

John:

okay, show me is number one.

John:

But if I only wanna pay X amount of dollars per user per click, It's

John:

going to favor a lower position.

John:

So I would use maximize conversions with, or without a target CPA,

John:

based on how aggressive you are going to get in your manual.

John:

CCPC campaigns does creating a campaign without a goal guidance change and or

John:

limit the machine learning capabilities.

John:

Only if you're choosing a bidding strategy that isn't optimizing for your goal.

John:

So if I needed maximize conversions, And when I set up a manual campaign

John:

without a goal guidance that maximize conversions wasn't there, the

John:

machine is going to optimize whatever bidding strategy you use, which could

John:

default to target cost per milli.

John:

If conversion based bidding strategies work better.

John:

When would you use target CPM or target CP or max CCP?

John:

Excuse me.

John:

Oh if you, maybe you never would.

John:

most of the time it's experimental placement testing.

John:

So for example, if we said, Hey all of our clients that have ever come to us all are

John:

really familiar and learned all this great stuff from this person's YouTube channel.

John:

Mm.

John:

Then I'm gonna try to capture as many people I can on that YouTube

John:

channel for as cheap as possible.

John:

So I can test to see are any of the people on this channel, also interested

John:

in my product without using an automated bidding strategy focused for conversions,

John:

because once that's assumed, which means, okay, if a person is on this YouTube

John:

channel, We're not even leaning on Google's algorithm to get them to convert.

John:

They're just converting naturally.

John:

Then you're going to end up changing that campaign later

John:

on when it's proven to, okay.

John:

Now how much more conversions or can we do a cost control of the conversions by

John:

still using the same, structure setup, which means placement on that channel?

John:

But then using it optimized for either leads or sales.

John:

So you're assuming that you do not know if those people on that channel will

John:

convert when they find out about you.

John:

And if that is the case, lean into it by adding an automating

John:

strategy, cuz you know, there's, the juices worth to squeeze on there.

John:

You're just gonna squeeze it more effectively with an automated video

John:

strategy, focus for conversions.

John:

I love what you said about TCPM.

John:

You're targeting people, max C P you're targeting placements, right.

John:

That's a good distinction from Andrew.

John:

Does gads consider on page behavior from GA for example, session length,

John:

cetera, and automated bidding strategies.

John:

Yes.

John:

Yeah.

John:

And they even will do that.

John:

Even if you don't have a code place on a page, which is scary Google's be.

John:

that it came out with like how many conversions you're getting.

John:

Even if you don't conversion tracking, set up, it's still present.

John:

It's still watching.

John:

And not only is it watching yours, your competitors are also learning from the

John:

activity on your own site, but you're also can target your competitors' users

John:

based on their activity on their site.

John:

So whole reason why conversion based bidding strategies work is because Google

John:

knows that the person that converted on solutions aids website has also been to.

John:

Five of our competitors in the last two weeks, that's infuriating that

John:

they're using it is our competitor data and then sharing 'em back and forth.

John:

I mean, it makes sense.

John:

It'd be hard to build it the other any other way, but that's

John:

well Apart from considering the nature of bidding strategies.

John:

Are there any other factors to consider while choosing the bidding strategy?

John:

Like nature of business, AOB, profit margins, et cetera.

John:

That's a really good question.

John:

Everything.

John:

everything.

John:

You're looking at and that's gonna be kind of the it blends into the other

John:

kind of course, but it makes sense.

John:

You need to look.

John:

The client's budget, what the client can afford to spend per customer.

John:

Do they want to scale or are they good at a specific spend?

John:

What is the LTV of that customer?

John:

I had already said budget, but , that kind of goes down

John:

to, CPA and also that budget.

John:

Like, I pay five for five customers at $500.

John:

Well, is that a week, a day or a month?

John:

That's gonna choose your different bidding strategies there as well.

John:

So, and how much volume, if it's $500, five times a day, I can spend

John:

10 grand a day, but at a target CPA of $500, if I know there's tons of

John:

traffic, I can be pick and choose.

John:

Now I can choose the immense amount of traffic.

John:

That's gonna come in.

John:

Say everyone stop, except for you.

John:

Coming then you use that bidding strategy, which is, maximize converges with a

John:

target cost acquisition, because there's an overwhelming amount of users that are

John:

ready to go and we have a high budget.

John:

So yeah, it's, everything is taken into consideration before

John:

choosing a bidding strategy.

John:

Absolutely.

John:

Osama, you had your hand up,

John:

I just typed it out in the comments I was just to build on.

John:

John's points of stealing data.

John:

ITNS are basically that where if you have the same product as someone else,

John:

you can essentially steal their data.

John:

So if you're selling branded products, get the ITNS for them, put them on

John:

your feed and you can take their data.

John:

Do you mean GTN or is it IEN something sorry.

John:

GT N GT N so curious there, if from a strategic perspective, does it

John:

make sense if you're selling products that everybody else is selling?

John:

If you feel you have more effective target?

John:

Or a channel let's say of, undiscovered prospects to use and go get your own

John:

G TNS from GS one so that Google can't match what it is you've discovered with

John:

what other people are doing now, Google actually rejected because of it valid GTN.

John:

It's gonna say, I know.

John:

Yeah, it says I know the product.

John:

I know the picture.

John:

I know the placement I know what this is.

John:

That's around GTN and then actually just gets disapproved to G.

John:

That's amazing.

John:

Yep.

John:

And what's actually funny though, is a lot of times when you have a G T I

John:

N a lot of times, what what's really cool is if you have a smaller budget

John:

and that product does well on Amazon.

John:

Because Amazon has to use G TNS.

John:

You can actually steal a whole bunch of like, just kind of leftover traffic.

John:

That's ready to go by saying like, Hey, for 20 bucks a

John:

day on this product has GTN.

John:

That's popular.

John:

You just gotta get like the leftovers that are just fast converters, but

John:

it's hard to scale out of it because then you have to be better than what

John:

Amazon's offering, which means price in delivering your, your shipping types.

John:

Cubage T CPA is meant for lead gen and Tero as is meant for eCommerce.

John:

No, so actually that's a great question that I missed.

John:

So thank you for bringing that.

John:

It was a point that I'd made in my head and I skipped over it in my mouth.

John:

So my brain were too faster.

John:

When I slowed myself down.

John:

When you have a targeted cost per acquisition for an eCommerce

John:

campaign, it's sometimes better than a maximized conversion value with,

John:

or even without a T row as campaign.

John:

And because of this reason, if you have a.

John:

Wide array of product prices for a client $20 up to $500.

John:

If you find the average order of value is X and it's fairly consistent.

John:

Like it's always 2 25.

John:

Sometimes it's 180.

John:

Sometimes that's 300, but majority of the time, month over month, about 2 25,

John:

you can use a maximized conversions with a target cost for acquisition of 50.

John:

And get a 400 row as or 80 and get a 300 row.

John:

As what you're asking Google to do is don't ignore those small sales, keep

John:

them because that averages out to a higher volume and an average AOB.

John:

Think about if you were to take a hundred sales.

John:

That are two 50 on average.

John:

And if you say no, no, no only go after the $250 sales, you might cut

John:

your volume down by 30% because you've erased the left side of the balance.

John:

So you've actually reduced your overall volume because you said only go after

John:

the big sales ignore littler sales.

John:

Your AOB will go up.

John:

Your volume will go down.

John:

Because you've, you've taken that balancing part said, gimme the $20

John:

and the $500 to equal 200, you said no more, $50 only go after 200.

John:

So your AOB goes up, but then you missed the 30 sales you're gonna make that week.

John:

So I actually like.

John:

Maximize conversions with the target cost for acquisition when

John:

it's consistent, bottom of the funnel traffic that the average

John:

door value does not change look at.

John:

And that's the end of that part.

John:

The non publishing part is if you all, wanted to look

John:

at their, AOBs always two 80.

John:

I said a TCP at one 20, and I'm, I'm consistently at 2.8 to three

John:

X return for the last two years.

John:

In our PAX pillar article, we recommend lead gen businesses use

John:

maximize conversions without setting target CPA or T row as, and for

John:

e-com we recommend conversions.

John:

Did you just say this change to maximize conversion value?

John:

Yeah.

John:

In our pillar article for our bidding, when we go through the tutorial section,

John:

the Recommended bidding strategy that we offer for lead generation businesses

John:

are to utilize maximize conversions.

John:

We tell them do not maximize conversion value mm-hmm and to do that without

John:

target CPA or TRO it's similar for e-comm and I, yes, cause that's still okay.

John:

Cuz I just, yeah, I wasn't said differently.

John:

Oh, and I'm sorry.

John:

I think I had a little bit of lag there, so I over spoke.

John:

So I'm sorry, go, go ahead.

John:

I apologize.

John:

No, I just wasn't sure.

John:

I thought that you had just said, but I'm also an idiot.

John:

So I don't know.

John:

I thought you just said that you were on team maximize

John:

conversion value for PAX now.

John:

So I was like, oh no.

John:

Did I just mess that up?

John:

in the article or no, no, you're you're right.

John:

And for lead generation, cause it's an article without saying.

John:

Apply an arbitrary value to the value of your conversions and then Justin

John:

automated bidding strategy based on those values after you've qualified

John:

that the person that came in actually spent that money without going down

John:

that crazy rabbit hole that they have to actually be experts in Google ads.

John:

This is the safe, like 1 0 1.

John:

Okay.

John:

So you're, you're still a hundred percent correct.

John:

The best agency knows.

John:

Okay, now we'll have to manipulate that specifically, but for just

John:

someone that's reading through and that says, okay, and then the clicking

John:

a button that's still perfect.

John:

Thank God.

John:

Thank you.

John:

You know what I decided on this phone call the idea that we would

John:

teach people how to run these.

John:

Campaigns and accounts themselves without actually being professionals.

John:

Teaching agencies make sense in freelancers even, but the idea that

John:

a business owner would actually run their own Google ads at this

John:

point truly is akin to your own brain surgery or your own dentistry.

John:

Maybe if we wanna be a little less arrogant, like,

John:

it's a level of expertise.

John:

It's like Andrew's video today on the, how to fly the airplane.

John:

It's so stupid to think that, oh, I'm just gonna shoot some YouTube

John:

videos and teach you how to fly an airplane and you're not gonna kill.

John:

There's if there's so much complexity Glen asks considering the difference

John:

between TCP and T Roaz, would it be worthwhile then creating two campaigns,

John:

exact same settings, then create one with T CPA and one with T Roaz.

John:

Then one campaign will go after conversions with the CPA focus and

John:

the other will go after conversions with the Roaz focus or would those

John:

campaigns just be fighting each other?

John:

No, that would be fire to each other.

John:

I'm assuming Glen, that you're using the same feed for both those campaigns.

John:

Two things are gonna happen.

John:

One they're gonna fight each other, but two, they might share users.

John:

So one may have a first click because it was a T CPA that was higher.

John:

Or lower.

John:

And then one might get the second click because the value of that conversion

John:

or the cost that conversion was higher or lower than that campaign's goal.

John:

So a lot of times they will either share a user back and forth, which means both

John:

are just kind of blended together that may have not actually had a different

John:

outcome than if it was just one campaign.

John:

But if it's with a feed, you're gonna see that whatever campaign

John:

quote unquote gets the better performance is just gonna steal all the

John:

impressions and ignore the other one.

John:

There's a concept.

John:

in coding when, as it pertains to relational databases, does everybody

John:

know what a relational database is?

John:

Think like a database error.

John:

That's funny when I worked for John, which was for years and years, anytime

John:

him and his dad would ask me a question.

John:

I didn't know.

John:

I would tell him I was a database error.

John:

we like, oh, okay.

John:

That makes sense.

John:

Yeah.

John:

Sounds reasonable.

John:

so a relational database is think of like a Google sheet and Excel

John:

file, but it it's three dimensional.

John:

So you have fields that are drawn from another Excel file.

John:

That's the relation.

John:

So relational database it's instead of, an X and Y you have an X and Y and a Z.

John:

This is a really, really important concept that I want us all to wrap our

John:

heads around what John has said here.

John:

And I actually really appreciated it.

John:

And it came from one of our questions is we have to take

John:

everything into consideration.

John:

So we just learned bid strategies today, but there's no, if this, then that bid

John:

strategy there's no, if this one thing, then that bid strategy that doesn't.

John:

Because it's still going to be if this and that, except when

John:

only, you know what I mean?

John:

And then we get our bid strategy.

John:

So this one class is actually.

John:

Worthless until you've taken the next 50 Friday classes that we're

John:

gonna go through and what's gonna happen is you're gonna build.

John:

And this is the way that John thinks you'll actually start to see it.

John:

When you watch him, he thinks in a relational manner, his

John:

brain is a relational database.

John:

Really?

John:

So is everybody's.

John:

I think his is just maybe a little bit more developed than most.

John:

So you're gonna start to figure out these rules, like if this, then that.

John:

Okay.

John:

Tiro as, except when, and we have this one little piece, but

John:

the reason I'm bringing this.

John:

It's because there's a lot of this when I try to build information

John:

and this is the way that I think learning heuristics tend to work.

John:

You try to put it somewhere like this goes here and the problem with

John:

anything relational is it only goes here in relation to other elements.

John:

Well, those other elements don't exist yet.

John:

So.

John:

That's gonna make learning this a little frustrating.

John:

It's also why Google ads is so complex.

John:

It's why we have jobs.

John:

So from here until forever, I want us to continue to look at

John:

this as relational learning.

John:

And that means that we'll probably have to start revisiting some of

John:

these topics, six months from now.

John:

Maybe we have another conversation on bid strateg.

John:

Only it's more complex cuz now John's taught us the other 20 things that are

John:

involved in the relational database and he can come back around and , we

John:

can, dive a little bit deeper.

John:

Every new hire that comes through solutions, eight's gonna have to watch

John:

every single one of these courses.

John:

And I want us all speaking the same language.

John:

We're singing the same song, dancing the same steps all to the same tune.

John:

And it's really important.

John:

That if we can tie ourselves together, I think that we're gonna avoid a lot of

John:

the issues that we've had in the past.

John:

John, to, , to build on that, we had an internal discussion as to

John:

the curriculum of these courses.

John:

And one thing came up was, Hey, why do we do a diagnostic course,

John:

like how to diagnose problems?

John:

And it's almost like.

John:

Akin to what Cosmo said, that relational learning, you can't use

John:

the tools in your mind to diagnose if you haven't built , the tool set yet.

John:

And I don't mean like, Hey, everyone here is not ready yet.

John:

That's not what I mean.

John:

I mean that if anybody, if I said, Hey, perform brain surgery

John:

because something's wrong.

John:

You're like, well, I don't even know how to diagnose.

John:

Because I haven't been taught the MRI machine.

John:

I haven't taught what to look for in the MRI machine.

John:

I haven't taught like how to use the local anesthetic machine yet, whatever

John:

it's and I dunno medical, but , I'm paraphrasing here, but exactly some

John:

ads, but a summit you had to do college for years before you could do that.

John:

Right.

John:

This is college.

John:

So before we can diagnose.

John:

What we have to do is learn the tools, how they are in relationship to each

John:

other, and then you'll diagnose.

John:

And what's funny is you'll see this happen, cuz this is how I learned

John:

Google ads, where now that we have the bidding strategies down

John:

and the next time you hop into a campaign, you're like, wait a minute.

John:

My search impression shares, maxed out my click shares, maxed out.

John:

I can't spend any more money.

John:

but as I'm using a restrictive bidding strategy, aha.

John:

What if I release that restrictive bidding strategy and make it expensive?

John:

Bing strategy.

John:

Does my click share go down?

John:

Which is good.

John:

Does my top search of pressure for my search of pressure, go down.

John:

I now know that this was an audience based and now the way to diagnosis.

John:

Well, if I need that to go up, I need that to go left.

John:

Then that's how the relationship is getting.

John:

That's our new company mantra, by the way, we want it to go up and left.

John:

that means that we're making money up into the side is good

John:

down that point of op learning.

John:

The neuro synapses in your brain don't finish the connection until after

John:

you've actually tried to do something.

John:

There's a really amazing book called the talent code.

John:

And it talks about how your brain builds the gray matter.

John:

That allows you to do the thing that you learn.

John:

And if you sit in a classroom, this is why school is violently flawed.

John:

If you sit in a classroom and learn something, you

John:

actually don't build that gray.

John:

So somebody could sit there for two years showing you schematics and PowerPoint

John:

presentations on riding a bike.

John:

But if you never actually ride on a bike and jump on a bike and start to

John:

pedal, you're not gonna go anywhere.

John:

So that's so funny.

John:

So what I'm saying is, after these classes, assuming you want to y'all,

John:

I can't make anybody be any more proactive than they want to be.

John:

But if you wanna connect the dots, the thing to do is to go open up Google ads

John:

and start looking at clients, start trying to say like, okay, when does this apply?

John:

How does this apply, et cetera.

John:

And I think this is gonna be the most productive two hours we spend.

John:

We've got a couple more.

John:

Questions that I wanna fly through.

John:

Jeremy just said another great book is learn like a pro.

John:

Thank you for that, Jeremy.

John:

I wanna go track it down.

John:

Maximize conversion is aggressive and hence would bid higher in most cases,

John:

but doesn't that exhaust the budget soon.

John:

And if that's the case, then in most cases it would only bid when it

John:

thinks the conversion rate is higher.

John:

And so would a competitive market of similar.

John:

Price products fail a max conversion bid strategy.

John:

Yes.

John:

So that's, now this isn't a cure and you're right.

John:

It does bid aggressive sometimes more so than what the budget allows for.

John:

So when you're using maximize conversions, for example, it's going to be an

John:

expensive conversion that is going to.

John:

We get as many as possible within your budget.

John:

And what happens there is it usually shoots up to the top and CPC gets

John:

as many conversions as it can.

John:

It tries to drop the CPC enough until it sees the conversions whittle down.

John:

And then it goes back up and says to get as many conversions.

John:

Here's where I think we need to be.

John:

If you switch that over to manual CPC, what you've done

John:

though, is you've removed.

John:

Google's learning about a.

John:

And said, okay.

John:

Do you wanna do the placement or do you wanna have the placement for

John:

who we think is going to convert?

John:

So sometimes you can pay a little less per click, but all of a sudden

John:

you've gotten a different audience now.

John:

So that's the point of delineation and there's no one

John:

size fits all you might say.

John:

No, no, no.

John:

The people that Google this keyword, a lot of times, they convert regardless

John:

of where they are in the funnel that happens sometimes quite often,

John:

two examples, a deck consolidation company, and a loan company that

John:

I've worked on manual CPC did not.

John:

Do as well as maximize conversions and also vice versa.

John:

And it was because , with a audience based bidding strategy, I was able to actually

John:

take a target cost for acquisition to an $8 lead where my manual, I couldn't get

John:

on the first page until I was at $15.

John:

So it was really weird.

John:

I couldn't, if I was spending $15, I finally got on the first page for deck

John:

consolidation, cuz that's super, super aggressive industry, but there was so

John:

much traffic that I said $8 conversions.

John:

I would just be like, I would just snip in 'em and I was

John:

getting 50% conversion rates.

John:

It was ridiculous.

John:

So again, there's always gonna be those odd sources, but typically.

John:

What Google will try to do is bit aggressive.

John:

Then only go down to where they see the point of diminishing

John:

returns to conversions.

John:

Then go back up.

John:

It has not tested lowered, though.

John:

If you wanna switch it to mad, you wanna say, wait a minute.

John:

I think we're spending too much.

John:

And you find that pocket there.

John:

Good on you.

John:

That's why we're here.

John:

So yes, that is very absolutely possible.

John:

The only point is did Google's match types were so widely.

John:

Odd that I don't have a keyword.

John:

I could focus on.

John:

I needed to lean on Google's ability to say exact, my close variant of an odd

John:

keyword, but I got the conversion again.

John:

Like that's crazy.

John:

That's crazy.

John:

I'm good.

John:

Given time people or giving people their time back, how do you feel.

John:

Is that all the questions?

John:

It's all the questions.

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